Now that Wisconsin Conceal Carry act has been written into Law, you like hundred of thousands of other Wisconsin Residents flock to their local sheriff’s offices or the Wisconsin Conceal Carry Website to be first in line to submit their application to conceal carry. First off, I no way am I providing legal advice about this license. If you have any questions please go to the Wisconsin Department of Justice website regarding the conceal carry permit.
While it seems that anyone with a hunter education certification can apply and obtain a conceal carry permit before you do I want you to ask yourself a question. If you were in a situation where you had to rely on your concealed weapon, do you know when can use it and that you are using it correctly? I say weapon because the law includes firearms, electric weapon such as a Tazer, metallic knuckles (brass knuckles), a nunchaku or similar weapon, a shuriken or similar pointed star like object, or a manrikigusari.
However what you don’t read about in the new law is how and when you can use your concealed weapon. This is where I personally feel most accidents are going to occur. Sure you got the permit, but are you educated enough to know when you can use it. For example, current Wisconsin law states that if the assailant is within 21 feet of you, you are permitted to use your weapon. However if that person is at 22 feet and you pull your trigger or throw your ninja star and kill that person, you are no longer considered a victim but instead you are labeled murder.
With that I strongly encourage that you educate yourself by checking out some of the NRA classes in your area.
{ 8 comments… read them below or add one }
First of all, you cannot just go to your “local sheriff’s offices or the Wisconsin Conceal Carry Website” to get your concealed carry license. You have to apply to the DOJ directly. Second, the “WI concealed carry license does NOT allow you to carry “metallic knuckles (brass knuckles), a nunchaku or similar weapon, a shuriken or similar pointed star like object, or a manrikigusari.” Those items are illegal, along with switchblades. Third, WI law says nothing about how far away an attacker has to be in order to use a “weapon.”
I strongly urge YOU to read the law before you start spouting off misinformation to people. In case you need a link, which I assume you do since none of the “information” you have given is correct, here it is.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=wi%20act%2035&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdocs.legis.wisconsin.gov%2Fdocument%2Facts%2F2011%2F35.pdf&ei=XC8ST8aWCMny0gGhsdiMAw&usg=AFQjCNGLxFc1MAKrlugipopyOiTR4LbFsg
If you look at page 19 of the CCW Law, it explains what is classified as a dangerous weapon, and all of those items fall under that category. At the time i published this article i was informed that you could obtain a CCW application from your local sheriff’s department.
I have read the law from front to back. While it does not say the distance that you are allowed to use deadly force, after talking with a local sheriff about the topic he explained that there are laws in place which describe how you can defend yourself. While in Act 35, it basically states that as a Wisconsin resident you can have a CCW permit. What it doesn’t tell you is what justifies self defense within the limits of the law.
I have to respond to this. You are wrong in your information. There is nothing in Wisconsin Statutes that says you may shoot if an assailant is within 21 feet, or if he is outside that you may not. I am not a lawyer, and this should not be considered legal advice, but the standard for lethal force has three components: opportunity, ability and jeopardy, and you must be in fear of death or great bodily harm. For example, an assailant with a machete across the street from you (to be arbitrary, say he’s 40-feet from you) has the opportunity and ability to cause death or great bodily harm, but at this point you are not in jeopardy. That same assailant with a gun now puts you in jeopardy, and you would be entitled to shoot to defend yourself, but it is incumbent upon you to make sure you do not jeopardize any innocent parties. Further, you do not have to wait until you are fired upon to return fire. The simple act of someone pointing a firearm at you places you in jeopardy (it doesn’t even have to be real, you just must reasonably believe it’s real), and you may defend yourself.
You really should be sure of your facts before you post such things.
My facts are based on talking with law enforcement about self defense. My information is accurate based on their 20+ experience in law enforcement.
From my understanding of what i’ve been told and researched is that if an assailant is 40 feet away from you, you have adequate time to run from him. However if the person is within 21 feet of you, you do not have adequate time to react and you are within the means of the self defense laws to defend yourself.
When i wrote this article it was a few days after i took an NRA CCW class, i combined some of that information and information from talking with law enforcement and reading the Wisconsin CCW law. Anyway the point of this article is to get people to educate themselves in how and when you can use your concealed weapon. I would rather shoot someone when i know i’m right, then shoot and kill someone when i’m wrong. Since one you don’t go to jail, and the other you can spend the rest of your life in jail.
What an odiferous pile of excrement from a male bovine.
“it seems that anyone with a hunter education certification can apply and obtain a conceal carry permit”
You obviously haven’t read the law, or the DOJ FAQ.
Here’s a PDF of Act 35: https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/acts/35.pdf
Training requirements are at 175.60 (4), the right-hand column of pg. 8.
And if you’ll look at 175.60(4)(1)(a), you’ll see that there’s no “seem” about it – the law clearly says that a HS certificate is adequate training to get a WI cc *_license_*.
Apparently the legislators only wanted to ensure that nobody was killed by accident, as HS has absolutely no relation to real life, or carrying a pistol for protection, other than knowing which end to hold & which end to point at whoever is attacking you.
“what you don’t read about in the new law is how and when you can use your concealed weapon”
That’s because it’s in the statutes already. See 939.48 “self-defense & defense of others”.
http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/939/III/48
“(1) A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person.
The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference.
The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.”
939.48 (1m) is our new Castle Doctrine. Pretty good for a first try.
But if you (or anyone reading this) had taken even the basic DOJ powerpoint course you’d already know about those laws.
You’d also know that the laws say nothing about distance, since that varies with person & circumstance, and the new cc license only covers the concealed carry of pistols, knives, “billy clubs” (for which there is no definition given), & electric ‘weapons’, as well as giving more places it’s legal to carry openly.
Better check the laws to see which of those Japanese ninja toys you listed are banned, too.
I did take a NRA CCW class prior to writing this article. At the time this was wrote the Castle Doctrine was not in place yet, and i have not read that document. Where i was getting the self defense distances was from a local Sheriff who has been a sheriff for almost 20 years now. I tend to take his thoughts on this law very serious, sense he was in fact the person who suggested to the counsel that wrote this bill to include a minimum education requirement of hunter safety.
The main purpose of this article it to convince people to educate themselves of Wisconsin’s self defense laws. My main point was to drill in was, what is the point of having a CCW if you don’t know when you can use it and when you cannot. At what point in the altercation to go from being a victim, to being the suspect.
For example. you are walking down the street and you see two men who are fighting, and one men’s life is in jeopardy. That day you are also have your weapon on you. You decide to intervene in the fight between the two men and it requires you to fire your weapon. But after you fired that shot will you ask yourself did you just shoot the victim, or the person that initiated the conflict. So let’s say you just shot the victim of the fight, now you are considered an accomplice. This was an example that was brought up in the NRA CCW class i took.
So if you read over your post, you in fact have educated yourself on when you can or cannot use your weapon, and so i applaud you for doing the research.
PS – the confusion you’re having about distance is probably based on the Tueller Drill, which shows that an average person can close 21′ in the time it takes the defending citizen to draw a pistol & fire a shot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill
So in reality, 21′ is the minimum distance you should keep from someone with ill intent. Someone who is older, physically disabled, or for whatever reason slightly slower, has a larger minimum distance.
So when someone is 30′ away, running at you with a knife & yelling about disembowling you, you’re probably safe in shooting (while also sidestepping / backing away). Don’t let him take another step while you’re worrying that a jury won’t think you were in enough danger.
“My facts are based on talking with law enforcement about self defense. My information is accurate based on their 20+ experience in law enforcement.”
As a former law enforcement officer myself, I can tell you, a lot of law enforcement officers (LEO) don’t know much about civilian self defense law. If you want legal information regarding self defense, consult a practicing criminal defense attorney. A lot of LEO don’t even know the laws regarding civilian carrying of weapons.
“From my understanding of what i’ve been told and researched is that if an assailant is 40 feet away from you, you have adequate time to run from him. However if the person is within 21 feet of you, you do not have adequate time to react and you are within the means of the self defense laws to defend yourself.”
You have been told incorrectly. I don’t know how fast the average person can run, but I know bullets travel a lot faster. “You can’t out run a bullet” is not just a colorful phrase. You will also find that 40-feet isn’t really all that far, if an assailant is hell-bent on assaulting/killing you. Again, the operative phrase is “in fear for your life”. If an assailant with a gun is shooting at me from 40-feet away, I may or may not have the capability to escape. If I do have that capability, I will certainly remove myself from the danger. If I can’t escape, and my only recourse to avoid being fatally injured is to shoot back, I will do what is necessary to protect myself. Distance is only one factor. The totality of circumstances is what determines whether or not you yourself will be charged with any offense.
“For example. you are walking down the street and you see two men who are fighting, and one men’s life is in jeopardy. That day you are also have your weapon on you. You decide to intervene in the fight between the two men and it requires you to fire your weapon. But after you fired that shot will you ask yourself did you just shoot the victim, or the person that initiated the conflict. So let’s say you just shot the victim of the fight, now you are considered an accomplice.”
If I were to witness something like this, I have a better weapon than my handgun…I have a cell phone (anyone who carries a weapon and does not carry a cell phone needs to rethink what they’re doing). At this point my life is not in jeopardy, and I don’t know what’s going on here…maybe one of the two parties is an undercover LEO trying to make an arrest. The preferred action in this case would be to call 911 and provide information to the police dispatcher as to what’s going on and be the best witness possible. Only when I become endangered would I consider turning to my own weapon.
I suppose there may be people out there who will only get the minimum training needed to get a CCL, but I suspect these will be few. Most people willing to submit to the process are also serious enough about carrying a weapon for self-protection to get the training necessary and/or study the law enough to know the ramifications of using a weapon. Before Act 35 passed, it was legal to carry a weapon openly (and still is) without a permit, and no training whatsoever was/is required. Those who choose/chose to take on the responsibility to carry openly most likely study, learn and understand the relevant laws of self-defense, and the legal requirements of open carry.